Sitting Outside My House on the Phone With Nutritionist Shira Barlow
On pancakes at the park, a lactation consultant’s sage advice and being a two home family.
Sitting Outside My House on the Phone is a monthly interview series featuring moms doing cool things, their stories, what they’re into and resources for moms!
I don’t want to use the word “fangirl,” but it’s the best way to describe the way I feel about nutritionist and author, Shira Barlow, MS, RD. A few years ago I started following her on Instagram for her recipes and it was there that I discovered her podcast where she covered nutrition and wellness topics in a way that always left me feeling like I’d just gotten off the phone with a really good friend. While Shira ended the podcast last year to focus on her private practice, listening to her talk about food and your body and how to treat yourself well was like stepping into a warm bath. She could tell me to gargle with apple cider vinegar (she would never) and I’d probably do it because she’d somehow made it sound soothing and cozy. You can understand, then, why she’s known as The Food Therapist, which also happens to be the title of her 2018 book published by Goop (no big deal).
Shira was one of the people I knew I wanted to talk to when I started this series. So, I sent her a DM and a few weeks later we were gabbing over Zoom discussing everything from her choice to take three years off from work after having her son Oliver (now 6), to the best snacks for kids, to the most beautiful, but heartbreaking thing about motherhood.
In true Shira fashion, she explains it all with care, ahead.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
C: What were the early days like for you and Oliver?
S: When Oliver was born, I had just written my first book. My book came out in February 2018 and he was born in June 2018. My work was taking off and I kind of assumed I would ride that rocket ship. But, when Oliver was born, my perspective shifted completely. I ended up taking off three years, which obviously that's not always a choice. I was in the dirt with him. I watched him watch the wind move the trees - I was a full-time mom.
C: What was it like for you to make the decision to stay home amidst all of the professional success that was happening?
S: It was just one of those things where I was like I can't see myself being away right now. I think it's an interesting thing, that crossover into motherhood, that you can't know until you know. There's a huge loss of ego and everything you thought really mattered to you. For me, I was always so ambitious. I always had my eye on the next thing. The book was this huge thing. It was published by Goop and I was like, that's all really cool and amazing! But, it just doesn't matter to me right now.
I think one of the things that really struck me in early motherhood was that I was Oliver’s safe space. No one ever explained to me the weight of that and how important that is and how special that is. The work that I do is incredibly maternal and nurturing and I didn't have the ability emotionally to do both. I was having this almost immersive experience where for the first time I slowed down everything.
C: When you did go back to work, was it harder or easier than you thought?
S: The one thing I think motherhood makes you realize is that no one knows what they're doing and everyone's figuring it out. No one gives you an instruction manual.
I remember there was this important moment when Oliver was really young and I was trying to figure out breastfeeding and the latch. I had this lactation consultant that I would literally call every second and I had her come a million times. I was always asking, “What do you think about this?” And she was like, “You're with him 24/7. You really need to lean into your own intuition. What do you think?” It was so empowering to have her be like, you have the answers.
I think one of the things that really struck me in early motherhood was that I was Oliver’s safe space. No one ever explained to me the weight of that and how important that is and how special that is.
It was interesting because I think I had become a lot less relevant in a lot of ways by not being on Instagram for three years, not keeping up with those kinds of things and relationships. I had the opportunity to come back with the podcast and that was a perfect opportunity because I had no freaking idea how to do that! I'd never done a podcast and I was like let me put my head down and work. I did feel like I had an intern season, maybe a couple of intern seasons where not everything was the thing that I wanted to do, but I felt like I just had to get back in it with no ego and I think motherhood really prepared me for that. Sometimes you just have to jump in and it's really not a big deal and you figure it out.
The one thing with motherhood that’s so beautiful and so heartbreaking is that nothing stays the same. So, Oliver doesn't need me in that same way. That is really hard and painful and it's also beautiful because it's brought breadth into my own professional life where I can do good work. I feel really confident. I feel really purposeful. The sunrise, sunset of it all, it's like that Glennon Doyle quote, “Everything is so brutiful.” Like, it's so brutal. It's so beautiful. It's all the things, but I think these babies do grow up and it's been really nice for me to pick up where I left off and get to build on that.
C: If you're open to talking about this a little bit, I wonder how having two households has shaped your experience as a mom?
S: The beautiful thing is that there’s no one way to have a family. Our family is really fortunate and blessed in that we do family stuff together, and we have two homes. But, I will say that in my experience going from preschool into elementary school, there was just not a lot of language that people had around two homes. I remember touring a school for kindergarten where a big focus was on identity for the kids: “This is who I am. This is my family. This is my room.” There were these dioramas of kids' rooms and I was like what if they have two rooms and two different houses? They don't know how to answer it. I'm not into shaming people or making people feel bad for not having the right language, it's more purely, here's another example of how a family can exist. I think part of it is that people don't talk about it. In this day and age, it's important to teach versus make people feel bad for misunderstanding or not having the right language.
C: To shift into nutrition, for moms like me who very much had a routine, I had my meditation, I’d always been conscious about food, but, post-baby I struggle with routine and implementing healthy habits, what advice do you have?
S: I see a lot of people that feel this way and I was the same. I would wake up, have my hot water, I'm meditating, I'm journaling, I'm getting my steps, I'm doing my 12 step skincare and then you have your kid and you realize you can really only do the bare minimum. I think a lot of us lose ourselves a little bit in early motherhood. It's both really beautiful and helpful in a way because it makes you realize that a lot of these things that you thought were so important to you end up not being the top priority. I find that a lot of us, myself included, then have to buoy back where you're like, okay, some of those things are important. No one gets a medal for taking garbage care of themselves.
I think it's helpful to have a list of non-negotiables. What are those baseline things that you really need in order to really feel like yourself? What you realize is that when you’re taking better care of yourself, everyone in your household benefits from that. I think if we can get those baseline things down on paper, we can fit them in when our baby naps or delegate or ask for help and figure out how those are going to fit in.
C: What’s your approach to helping kids develop a healthy relationship with food?
The biggest thing when it comes to kids is that they go through periods where they're growing really rapidly and they're hungry all the time, and then they go through periods where they're not growing that rapidly and they're not as hungry and I think a lot of times those kids get labeled as picky eaters. That happens too, by the way, but I think we have to keep in mind that there's a lot of things at play and and just because a kid is going through a period where they're just not as hungry or not as interested in food - don't get stuck in that. A lot of kids need 25 exposures to a food to be open to having it. I like to do a thing where I put two slam dunk things and two things that I hope they eat alongside each other on a plate. I have a big thing about trying something and if you don't like it, you don't have to have more than that.
The one thing I think motherhood makes you realize is that no one knows what they're doing and everyone's figuring it out. No one gives you an instruction manual.
The other big thing is supplementing kids with a good multivitamin. The thought is caretakers provide the food, kids decide how much they want and if they don't want any, say it's dinner, there will be breakfast the next day. That's a really cute idea and it's not misguided, but I think if you're a parent, the idea of your kid going to sleep hungry or not having gotten everything that they need is really scary. I think it drives us to bribe with food and treats and be quite anxious around food. I find that high quality supplementation can really help because it just takes the edge off.
Another thing I feel really strongly about with kids is when we're feeding them first foods, starting with protein and veg because I think the mistake a lot of us make is giving banana, sweet potato, mashed up strawberries - no kid's not going to want that. It's sugar. Sugar triggers the same pleasure center in the brain as drugs and alcohol. There are different amino acids that they sense in their tongues that can start to identify something as yummy and tasty. So, after you've introduced a lot of protein and vegetables, then bring in the sweet potato. That sets up a healthy palette. I will say that with Oliver I did it really specifically and was maybe a little too intense about the whole thing, and he loves candy just as much as everyone else's kids. Know that all of our kids are gonna beg for sugar, so, you're doing great!
C: I had one friend who specifically was like, “Can you please ask if there are any snacks that Shira recommends for kids?!”
S: I love doing a popsicle and adding a little bit of protein powder and sneaking some veggies in there. I just feel like kids are obsessed with popsicles. Oliver loves a smoothie. I also think you can put a lot of good stuff in a pancake. I'm a big pancake person. I bring pancakes to the park.
C: Yeah, because you can do cottage cheese and get that protein in there.
S: You can put cottage cheese in there and they love it! I also like Lesser Evil. I like Made Good. I like Asha Pops. I was one of those people that made my own puffs and my own chicken liver. I was really obnoxious like that. Then, I would take him to the park and he would lick Pringles crumbs off the floor.
I have pretty specific standards for what I'm going to buy and keep in my house and then I have very different standards for what we're up to outside the house. I think that there's so much we can't control and we're raising these kids so that they're independent people. Ideally, we're setting them up so that they can make thoughtful choices.
C: If you had one day of ideal, ultimate self care, what would you be doing?
S: I'd wake up late. I'd make a really yummy protein rich breakfast. I'd go on a hike. I’d either listen to amazing music or go with someone that I really love, that I feel really seen and felt and held by and that I could have a meaningful talk on the hike with.
The funny thing is once you're a mom, like, I would love to pick Oliver up from school and make him a really beautiful dinner and tuck him in. We read Harry Potter at night and it's so fun because I never read it. We’re experiencing it together. Last night I read a couple pages and I was so sad because he fell asleep in two pages and I was like, let's keep going! I looked over at him and got to watch him sleep for a couple of minutes. I spent an extra second in there cause I was just like, we're so lucky. I'm so lucky. I think as a mom who works, sometimes there is a juggle at the end of the day, you're thinking about all the things you’ve got to do. So, I’d love to have the gift of extra time, to be extra present and extra grateful for all of the yummy stuff.
